Those who believe Sue that God willingly allows us to suffer are not understanding His Heart of Love, He tolerates it, to say that He willingly allowed me to be molested 5 times from the age of 3 and to be raped by a Doctor when I was not yet 15, to be bashed repeatedly by my first Husband even during Pregnancy and to loose my 7 Children during Childbirth and also other suffering and hardship that I have and do endure, just so He could mold and shape me shows lack of understanding of our God of Love (1 Corinthians 2:9-16 – John 16:13 -15 – Psalm 97:9-11 ) , He tells us……
Lamentations 3: 33 For God doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the Children of Men.
Yes bad things do happen to Christians, as we see with Paul’s life and most of the Disciples were Martyred and other Christians in the early Church and through the years and yes today too. Satan controls this World (1John5:18-20) and like with Job because of the fall he has a right to put us to the test but the Scriptures tell us it is slander to say that even Believers do evil to bring good out of it (Romans 3:8 ) and to willingly allow evil is the same as condoning it. Many turn away from God because of blaming Him for their suffering, it does not make them Trust in Him more, what does increase our Trust is in knowing regardless of what we have to endure He is with us and will help us.
Isaiah 43:1-3 – Do not be afraid, for I have ransomed you. I have called you by name; you are mine. When you go through deep waters and great trouble, I will be with you. When you go through rivers of difficulty, you will not drown! When you walk through the fire of oppression, you will not be burned up; the flames will not consume you. For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Saviour.”
Yes God knows we will suffer and have hardship an persecution in this Life but as we see confirmed above in Scripture and in others, He gives us what is needed when we endure it and He is with us through whatever life brings, giving us His Strength and resources when needed and we remember this World also has His good works too for us to enjoy. Psalm33:4-6
Jeremiah 29 :11-12 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of Peace and not of evil, to give you a Future and a Hope.
As we also see confirmed more than once in Scripture, God’s plans for us are good not for us to suffer even though He knows we will, He molds and shapes by giving us opportunities to show Love and Kindness and by us choosing to walk in the Fruit of The Spirit, He empowers us so we can and this puts our Carnal Nature to death, Perfecting us in Love, yes we are to work out our Salvation not meaning work for it!. We reap what we sow good and bad.
1 John 3:16-18 My little Children, let us not Love in word or in tongue but in deed and in Truth. (N.K.J.V)
1 John 3: 1-11 ( 6-7 ) Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth Righteousness is Righteous, even as He is Righteous.
Proverbs 11:18-20 The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth Righteousness shall be a sure reward. As Righteousness tendeth to life so he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death. They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the Lord: but such as are upright in their way are His delight.(KJV)
1 John 3: 1-11 ( 9 ) No one who is Born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been Born of God.
God is love but He cannot and will not go against His nature. For those who have been abused as children; physically, emotionally, sexually, psychologically – those who have been abused through domestic violence, raped (which is sexual abuse) that is man’s free will. Granted it is the devil’s influences that brings it about but like in Job, He allowed Satan to do harm but He also put a limit to what Satan could do. He must allow it and that’s what so many do not understand. Whatever the cause of our suffering He is with every person in their suffering and it is up to us to turn to Him for His healing and comfort. He never leaves us! I don’t think Marianne was even hinting at God “wanted” any of our suffering to happen. Her article is offering encouragement and comfort through reaching out in a way that gives hope.
I’m sorry Sue but I did not feel that encouragement, although I’m sure it was meant to be but like many who claim that God allows our pain to mold and shape us, they are trusting in their own perception, logic, wisdom and understanding this is why we need God’s wisdom and empowering which we ask for and not doubt we have received them, Jesus will than lead us into all Truth and show us error too.
God does not willingly allow our pain but we can rejoice when we suffer not literally in the flesh of course but with inner Joy, knowing He is with us and will give us the Strength to endure and yes what we suffer for Him will be greatly rewarded too.
Job did not know it was Satan that was afflicting him like we do now but God reassured him later that all good comes from His hand not evil and Job apologized. God did no willingly allow Satan to harm Job, nor does he do this with us, Satan won the the right because of the fall to put us to the test and he does this with tempting us to do evil and with hardship, he knows no other way, when God puts us to the test it is with an opportunity to do good which is what The Fruit of the Spirit is all about but yes others harm us, we reap the evil we sow and we also live in a fallen world that has sickness and death and evil happenings.
James 1:12-14 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that Love Him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Why does God not stop all evil, He would have to stop the World as we know it, the same as when He sent the World wide flood, which was for good not evil but He is patient not wanting anyone to perish, meaning to be eternally separated from Him in Hell or in the Lake of Fire , He is giving them time to repent showing they believe in Jesus their Redeemer but be assured it grieves Him greatly to see us suffer and those who cause it will reap what they sow but we continue to Love even our enemies and pray for them and also do good things for them when given the opportunity.
In reading the comments from Mariannes blog there were many that were encouraged and some were heart breaking stories. I’m sorry you found no encouragement in the article but many did, including me. We don’t always have all the answers and that’s why we lean on Christ in our times of suffering. It is His comfort, wisdom, and guidance we seek. Blessings to you.
The teaching Sue that God willingly allows Satan to afflict us causing us pain and hardship so He can mold and shape us, has even infiltrated our Churches but it has come from the Cults and those who are deceived by their teaching and sadly I remember believing it too and even forwarding on e-mails that propagated this deception, which I now have asked forgiveness for.
I want you to think about something you said to me Sue…….”For those who have been abused as children; physically, emotionally, sexually, psychologically – those who have been abused through domestic violence, raped (which is sexual abuse) that is man’s free will. Granted it is the devil’s influences that brings it about but like in Job, God allowed Satan to do harm but He also put a limit to what Satan could do.
Do you honestly believe God willingly allows Satan to molest and rape Children and woman through the men he has influenced or to allow woman that he also influences to abort their babies or to abuse and bash their Children like my Mother did to me. He knows us before we are conceived and His plans for us are good not evil.
My first husband Bill as I will call him, use to choke me while telling me what he was going to do to me when I was unconscious, all the time using the F word, which still disturbs me when people use it today, a few times he almost killed me. One night he locked me in the Bathroom in the middle of Winter, he removed all my clothes and the towels and turned the water off, he left me in there for two hours and I was pregnant, another time he bashed me while I was in Hospital and yes I was also pregnant and so it continues. Bill was tortured by his Alcoholic father as a child and his father suffered because of his Alcoholic father. What did I later do about my damaged emotions? I will leave a link for you……
But Sue do you honestly believe that God willingly allowed Satan do do these things to me through Bill to mold and shape me, which is what the message you shared propagated. It disturbs me greatly to know others are believing and welcoming this deception too because one day when they are suffering they will think God is doing it or allowing it deliberately and feel hurt and bitter towards Him just as Job’s wife did and so did Job if you read on and it is why God corrected him.
What you also need to think about Sue, is do you personalty Trust someone whom you believe will deliberately and willingly allow you to be hurt? as I shared before, the Scriptures tell us God does not do or willingly allow evil to bring good out of it, He hates all evil.
What happened to Job I have already explained before too, Satan because of the fall won the right to put Job to the test as he does with us too but because our time on earth is already known by God, Satan cannot kill us before this time is up. God also protects our Soul and not one of us whom He knows as His own will be lost or He would not have chosen us to be conformed into the image of Jesus, yes He knew we would choose to Love Him wholeheartedly and be His and this is what Satan tries to stop by his, so we will have fleshy fear of God and not really Love Him.
Hi Anne: I think there might have been a misunderstanding about what I wrote. NO God does not allow someone to rape, murder, abuse, etc. to cause us to grow closer to Him or “mold us” as you’ve stated. Your husband, in your example, has free will. He CHOSE to do the horrible things he did. That is his free will. God was not sitting on the side line cheering him on. He was crying with you, feeling your pain, interceding to the Father on your behalf. He will not reach down from heaven and slap the tar out of your husband as your husband is beating you and tell him to stop it. He is with us through the suffering and in time will bring healing to our physical, emotional, or spiritual wounds if we allow Him to. He will use what was meant for evil and turn it for His glory. And He DOES NOT allow the suffering JUST FOR THE PURPOSE TO “MOLD” US. Man commits evil and Christ brings us through it. But He cannot stop someone who chooses to do evil. That goes against His character. And it is our choice as to whether we draw closer to Him or turn away. There’s that free will again.
We are in agreement Sue, it is indeed Satan’s deception that God willingly afflicts us with evil to mold and shape us, this is so we will have fleshy fear of God and not really Love and Trust Him but also that we will hold onto bitterness and resentment towards those who have hurt us, giving Satan a foothold in our lives and blocking out God’s Blessings for us as His chosen Children of the Promise.
Bill was a tortured man, I always had compassion for him and still do today and it is why I kept trying to make our Marriage work even though I was hurting greatly, although I also blamed myself because I could not give him a healthy child, today if I think of Bill I pray he will know God’s forgiveness and Love like we do.
I am so sorry for the suffering you went through as I am for all victims of abuse. It isn’t fair but we have a Savior that suffered, too and knows our pain. You will be reunited with your babies and the pain you feel will also be gone. The Lord has used our suffering from these atrosities for His good. I don’t think we would be who we are today without the particular suffering we have experienced. At least I wouldn’t be. Be blessed Anne, and keep holding onto Him.
It is by God’s Grace that we are not bitter and resentful Sue and yes He does work everything for good in our lives, even the evil we have suffered, although He doesn’t use evil for good. Many who have been afflicted are bitter and resentful and unwilling to forgive, they choose sometimes to seek revenge and yes they often Blame God too.
I have known much abuse and heartache in my life some which I caused myself but although I remember and share the details of what happened to me, it is without pain now. Truth was that for many years I could not cry, I was like an Iceberg, I had pushed down my feelings so much even to denying that they were important but today I can cry when needed, a gift I give thanks for and there are always Jesus’s Loving Arms to comfort me and carry my load and my Christian Brother and Sisters like you who choose to Pray and Support me, Truly my Life has been blessed, Praise God from whom all Blessings flow.
Sue's Pen 2 Paper Blog 
Those who believe Sue that God willingly allows us to suffer are not understanding His Heart of Love, He tolerates it, to say that He willingly allowed me to be molested 5 times from the age of 3 and to be raped by a Doctor when I was not yet 15, to be bashed repeatedly by my first Husband even during Pregnancy and to loose my 7 Children during Childbirth and also other suffering and hardship that I have and do endure, just so He could mold and shape me shows lack of understanding of our God of Love (1 Corinthians 2:9-16 – John 16:13 -15 – Psalm 97:9-11 ) , He tells us……
Lamentations 3: 33 For God doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the Children of Men.
Yes bad things do happen to Christians, as we see with Paul’s life and most of the Disciples were Martyred and other Christians in the early Church and through the years and yes today too. Satan controls this World (1John5:18-20) and like with Job because of the fall he has a right to put us to the test but the Scriptures tell us it is slander to say that even Believers do evil to bring good out of it (Romans 3:8 ) and to willingly allow evil is the same as condoning it. Many turn away from God because of blaming Him for their suffering, it does not make them Trust in Him more, what does increase our Trust is in knowing regardless of what we have to endure He is with us and will help us.
Isaiah 43:1-3 – Do not be afraid, for I have ransomed you. I have called you by name; you are mine. When you go through deep waters and great trouble, I will be with you. When you go through rivers of difficulty, you will not drown! When you walk through the fire of oppression, you will not be burned up; the flames will not consume you. For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Saviour.”
Yes God knows we will suffer and have hardship an persecution in this Life but as we see confirmed above in Scripture and in others, He gives us what is needed when we endure it and He is with us through whatever life brings, giving us His Strength and resources when needed and we remember this World also has His good works too for us to enjoy. Psalm33:4-6
Jeremiah 29 :11-12 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of Peace and not of evil, to give you a Future and a Hope.
As we also see confirmed more than once in Scripture, God’s plans for us are good not for us to suffer even though He knows we will, He molds and shapes by giving us opportunities to show Love and Kindness and by us choosing to walk in the Fruit of The Spirit, He empowers us so we can and this puts our Carnal Nature to death, Perfecting us in Love, yes we are to work out our Salvation not meaning work for it!. We reap what we sow good and bad.
1 John 3:16-18 My little Children, let us not Love in word or in tongue but in deed and in Truth. (N.K.J.V)
1 John 3: 1-11 ( 6-7 ) Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth Righteousness is Righteous, even as He is Righteous.
Proverbs 11:18-20 The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth Righteousness shall be a sure reward. As Righteousness tendeth to life so he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death. They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the Lord: but such as are upright in their way are His delight.(KJV)
1 John 3: 1-11 ( 9 ) No one who is Born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been Born of God.
Christian Love and Blessings – Anne.
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God is love but He cannot and will not go against His nature. For those who have been abused as children; physically, emotionally, sexually, psychologically – those who have been abused through domestic violence, raped (which is sexual abuse) that is man’s free will. Granted it is the devil’s influences that brings it about but like in Job, He allowed Satan to do harm but He also put a limit to what Satan could do. He must allow it and that’s what so many do not understand. Whatever the cause of our suffering He is with every person in their suffering and it is up to us to turn to Him for His healing and comfort. He never leaves us! I don’t think Marianne was even hinting at God “wanted” any of our suffering to happen. Her article is offering encouragement and comfort through reaching out in a way that gives hope.
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I’m sorry Sue but I did not feel that encouragement, although I’m sure it was meant to be but like many who claim that God allows our pain to mold and shape us, they are trusting in their own perception, logic, wisdom and understanding this is why we need God’s wisdom and empowering which we ask for and not doubt we have received them, Jesus will than lead us into all Truth and show us error too.
God does not willingly allow our pain but we can rejoice when we suffer not literally in the flesh of course but with inner Joy, knowing He is with us and will give us the Strength to endure and yes what we suffer for Him will be greatly rewarded too.
Job did not know it was Satan that was afflicting him like we do now but God reassured him later that all good comes from His hand not evil and Job apologized. God did no willingly allow Satan to harm Job, nor does he do this with us, Satan won the the right because of the fall to put us to the test and he does this with tempting us to do evil and with hardship, he knows no other way, when God puts us to the test it is with an opportunity to do good which is what The Fruit of the Spirit is all about but yes others harm us, we reap the evil we sow and we also live in a fallen world that has sickness and death and evil happenings.
James 1:12-14 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that Love Him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Why does God not stop all evil, He would have to stop the World as we know it, the same as when He sent the World wide flood, which was for good not evil but He is patient not wanting anyone to perish, meaning to be eternally separated from Him in Hell or in the Lake of Fire , He is giving them time to repent showing they believe in Jesus their Redeemer but be assured it grieves Him greatly to see us suffer and those who cause it will reap what they sow but we continue to Love even our enemies and pray for them and also do good things for them when given the opportunity.
Blessings -Anne.
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In reading the comments from Mariannes blog there were many that were encouraged and some were heart breaking stories. I’m sorry you found no encouragement in the article but many did, including me. We don’t always have all the answers and that’s why we lean on Christ in our times of suffering. It is His comfort, wisdom, and guidance we seek. Blessings to you.
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The teaching Sue that God willingly allows Satan to afflict us causing us pain and hardship so He can mold and shape us, has even infiltrated our Churches but it has come from the Cults and those who are deceived by their teaching and sadly I remember believing it too and even forwarding on e-mails that propagated this deception, which I now have asked forgiveness for.
I want you to think about something you said to me Sue…….”For those who have been abused as children; physically, emotionally, sexually, psychologically – those who have been abused through domestic violence, raped (which is sexual abuse) that is man’s free will. Granted it is the devil’s influences that brings it about but like in Job, God allowed Satan to do harm but He also put a limit to what Satan could do.
Do you honestly believe God willingly allows Satan to molest and rape Children and woman through the men he has influenced or to allow woman that he also influences to abort their babies or to abuse and bash their Children like my Mother did to me. He knows us before we are conceived and His plans for us are good not evil.
My first husband Bill as I will call him, use to choke me while telling me what he was going to do to me when I was unconscious, all the time using the F word, which still disturbs me when people use it today, a few times he almost killed me. One night he locked me in the Bathroom in the middle of Winter, he removed all my clothes and the towels and turned the water off, he left me in there for two hours and I was pregnant, another time he bashed me while I was in Hospital and yes I was also pregnant and so it continues. Bill was tortured by his Alcoholic father as a child and his father suffered because of his Alcoholic father. What did I later do about my damaged emotions? I will leave a link for you……
Rescued- http://freedomborn.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/rescued-from-the-graveyard/
But Sue do you honestly believe that God willingly allowed Satan do do these things to me through Bill to mold and shape me, which is what the message you shared propagated. It disturbs me greatly to know others are believing and welcoming this deception too because one day when they are suffering they will think God is doing it or allowing it deliberately and feel hurt and bitter towards Him just as Job’s wife did and so did Job if you read on and it is why God corrected him.
What you also need to think about Sue, is do you personalty Trust someone whom you believe will deliberately and willingly allow you to be hurt? as I shared before, the Scriptures tell us God does not do or willingly allow evil to bring good out of it, He hates all evil.
What happened to Job I have already explained before too, Satan because of the fall won the right to put Job to the test as he does with us too but because our time on earth is already known by God, Satan cannot kill us before this time is up. God also protects our Soul and not one of us whom He knows as His own will be lost or He would not have chosen us to be conformed into the image of Jesus, yes He knew we would choose to Love Him wholeheartedly and be His and this is what Satan tries to stop by his, so we will have fleshy fear of God and not really Love Him.
Blessings – Anne.
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Hi Anne: I think there might have been a misunderstanding about what I wrote. NO God does not allow someone to rape, murder, abuse, etc. to cause us to grow closer to Him or “mold us” as you’ve stated. Your husband, in your example, has free will. He CHOSE to do the horrible things he did. That is his free will. God was not sitting on the side line cheering him on. He was crying with you, feeling your pain, interceding to the Father on your behalf. He will not reach down from heaven and slap the tar out of your husband as your husband is beating you and tell him to stop it. He is with us through the suffering and in time will bring healing to our physical, emotional, or spiritual wounds if we allow Him to. He will use what was meant for evil and turn it for His glory. And He DOES NOT allow the suffering JUST FOR THE PURPOSE TO “MOLD” US. Man commits evil and Christ brings us through it. But He cannot stop someone who chooses to do evil. That goes against His character. And it is our choice as to whether we draw closer to Him or turn away. There’s that free will again.
I hope this helps. Have a blessed day.
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We are in agreement Sue, it is indeed Satan’s deception that God willingly afflicts us with evil to mold and shape us, this is so we will have fleshy fear of God and not really Love and Trust Him but also that we will hold onto bitterness and resentment towards those who have hurt us, giving Satan a foothold in our lives and blocking out God’s Blessings for us as His chosen Children of the Promise.
Bill was a tortured man, I always had compassion for him and still do today and it is why I kept trying to make our Marriage work even though I was hurting greatly, although I also blamed myself because I could not give him a healthy child, today if I think of Bill I pray he will know God’s forgiveness and Love like we do.
Blessings – Anne.
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I am so sorry for the suffering you went through as I am for all victims of abuse. It isn’t fair but we have a Savior that suffered, too and knows our pain. You will be reunited with your babies and the pain you feel will also be gone. The Lord has used our suffering from these atrosities for His good. I don’t think we would be who we are today without the particular suffering we have experienced. At least I wouldn’t be. Be blessed Anne, and keep holding onto Him.
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It is by God’s Grace that we are not bitter and resentful Sue and yes He does work everything for good in our lives, even the evil we have suffered, although He doesn’t use evil for good. Many who have been afflicted are bitter and resentful and unwilling to forgive, they choose sometimes to seek revenge and yes they often Blame God too.
I have known much abuse and heartache in my life some which I caused myself but although I remember and share the details of what happened to me, it is without pain now. Truth was that for many years I could not cry, I was like an Iceberg, I had pushed down my feelings so much even to denying that they were important but today I can cry when needed, a gift I give thanks for and there are always Jesus’s Loving Arms to comfort me and carry my load and my Christian Brother and Sisters like you who choose to Pray and Support me, Truly my Life has been blessed, Praise God from whom all Blessings flow.
Blessings – Anne.
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I, too have suffered much and I give all praise, honor and glory to my Lord for where He has brought me.
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